FHWA-FTA PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT WEBINAR TRANSCRIPT
Rae Keasler: Good afternoon and good morning everyone. Thank you for joining us for today's webinar. We appreciate your interest and your participation. I just wanted to go over a few logistics about the webinar before we begin. If you wouldn't mind please, while I am talking about the webinar, feel free to complete the poll questions that are up that are asking you about what type of organization do you represent, how did you find out about this webinar and, for today's call, how many people are sharing the same connection with you? If you haven't attended one of our webinars before, welcome. We will be holding the webinar in just a minute, but I wanted to let you know that if you have any questions or comments and you'd like to share them with the audience at large, please go ahead and enter them in the chat box that is directly beneath the audio information in the webinar room on the left column. We will try to answer any questions or address any comments as they come in through the chat box. But if they are of a more complex nature, we will likely hold it for the question and answer session that we have planned for the end of this webinar today. We are going to submit this webinar to APA [the American Planning Association] for consideration of 1.5 AICP CM [credits]. If the webinar is approved, we will probably have that posted to the APA [web]page in about six weeks or so, so look for it then. Without further ado, thank you for completing these poll questions. We are going to wrap it up in just a minute. I'd like to turn this over to James Garland. He is the Team Leader for the Federal Highway Administration's Office of Planning, Planning Capacity Building Team. James?
James Garland: Thank you, Rae. And hello to everyone. We really appreciate your participation in today's webinar on Online Public Involvement Tools for Transportation Agencies: Rationale, Best Practices, and Case Studies. We are very excited to have you participate, and we have a host of dynamic speakers that are lined up to share some innovative examples in the benefits of public involvement tools for transportation agencies. Today, we are also going to explore some online public involvement tools that are out there, and also take a look at some case studies that help demonstrate planning situations on how to apply each of these tools. As Rae mentioned, we have a few poll questions that are up right now, and if you haven't already completed those, please do so at this time. If you look at the bottom left side of the screen, there's a file share, and that contains downloadable information that you can take with you and review those materials at your leisure if you need to leave the webinar early or if you want to reference them at any point in the near future. Also, our next webinar for external audiences will be available for June 3rd. More information will be sent out via email on that webinar, but the topics will be a nice dovetail to this discussion and will cover scenario planning and public involvement techniques so again that's going to be on June 3rd with more information forthcoming. Again, we really appreciate your participation and at this point I would like to turn it over to Dwayne Weeks.
Dwayne Weeks: Thanks, James. My name is Dwayne Weeks. I am the Director of the Office of Planning Methods in the Federal Transit Administration’s Office of Planning and Environment. This webinar dovetails neatly into a lot of our key emphasis areas for our Metropolitan Planning Organizations (MPOs) and State Departments of Transportation (State DOTs). As most of you know, Acting [FTA] Administrator Therese McMillan and the Deputy Administrator sent a letter to MPOs and State Departments of Transportation to include in their unified planning work programs and the overall work programs for fiscal year 2015. They include implementation of MAP-21 and performance-based planning. Looking at how MPOs and State DOTs and transit agencies can identify data needs in collecting performance data, selecting and reporting performance targets, and working together to identify regional priorities if they need to be met. Another of the planning emphasis areas is Models of Regional Cooperation, where the goal is to promote cooperation and coordination processes across MPO boundaries and the State boundaries where appropriate, to better do regional planning―as we all know most transportation planning and air quality problems and congestion issues don't begin and end at a specific political or jurisdictional border. They tend to cross States, MPO boundaries and multiple areas. We are asking folks to work with our adjacent MPOs, States, cities, and county governments to coordinate planning process, look at how we can do joint planning products, including long range plans that cover multiple MPOs and other areas of coordination. And finally there is the Ladders of Opportunity, which is intended to identify whether there are the gaps in the transportation system between where disadvantaged populations live, including persons with disabilities, folks without autos, [and] people that don't have access to employment, [and] educational, and social service opportunities and [how to] close those gaps. Ladders encourages MPOs to use analytical methods to measure connectivity and do public outreach and improve public involvement, including reaching out to folks with limited English proficiency to bring them into the planning process and educate them about the importance of the metropolitan statewide planning process. These presentations that are going to come up are intended to promote new ideas and new techniques in how to reach the public. With that I will turn it over to Jody.
Jody McCullough: This is Jody McCullough, and I think James and Dwayne did a good job of summarizing of the purpose for our webinar today and so our speakers today are going to present some new innovative ways of the use of technology for public involvement and that can really enhance the process. This isn't the only way of doing public involvement, but this is a technique that's gaining popularity and becoming very effective with reaching a broad audience. So I would like to introduce our first speaker today and our first speaker is Dave Biggs. Dave is the Chief Engagement Officer for MetroQuest. Mr. Biggs is an internationally recognized expert in stakeholder engagement, public outreach and the use of software tools to enhance community and participation for planning projects. With over 20 years of experience on a wide range of award-winning planning projects of government clients and consulting firms, Mr. Biggs has built a reputation for leading edge community outreach. These projects have consistently reached a broad demographic and generated meaningful input using innovative and highly useful user friendly tools and techniques. Many of these projects have earned national and international awards for community participation and are cited by agencies like the APA, TRB, and the Federal Highway Administration as best practices for stakeholder engagement. He is co-founder of MetroQuest, the most mature online engagement software available with over 17 years of real world use and continuous refinement. Mr. Biggs has authored several books and papers on planning, in ability, and stakeholder engagement and has facilitated over 200 workshops and community forums. So I'll turn it over to Dave.
Dave Biggs: Thanks very much Jody and welcome everyone. Thanks so much for joining us. We are very excited to talk to you today about some of the research that we've done into best practices and some of the case studies that we've looked at and talk first a little bit about some of the benefits and kind of return on investment for doing online engagement and what it offers to agencies. Just looking at the results here of the poll question it seems like many of you have had some limited experience of using online engagement tools and that many of you have projects coming up where broad public involvement is necessary. So very pleased to see that and I plan on talking a little bit about what we've learned over the years in terms of researching the needs of agencies and researching how online engagement tools can be effective in helping meet some of the goals that we've heard repeatedly. So first looking at the context that we are dealing with, I'm sure this looks very familiar to all of us. I can only imagine the person taking this picture trying to figure out what angle to take the picture from to make it seem like we had a good turnout at the public event. The alternative might look something like this where we do have a great turnout. Unfortunately maybe the demographic is fairly uniform. There is some anger in the room. Maybe there are some cameras and some bad press happening. So chances are in public meetings you are encountering either a low turnout or things like this. And really it's in that context that solutions like online engagement have been considered. When we have interviewed agencies about their needs, these three things came up consistently as goals that they would like to achieve. Just going through them one at a time and diving into the first one: engaging more people is a consistent theme. There are really a couple things that people have talked about consistently. The first is really about the quantity of people. The turnout seems to be dwindling at public meetings and so reaching more people but also perhaps a broader cross section or a different demographic that tends to come to public meetings. The second aspect is to do that in a way that's cost effective. Public meetings can be very expensive and, when you couple that with sometimes a low turnout, the cost per participant can be extremely high. When we then look at another aspect, gaining insight is really about the quality of public opinion coming in. Do we have a really textured view of what the public thinks about a particular planning process, a particular area? What are the key issues for people? Not the people necessarily that show up always to public meetings but the broader public that perhaps don't participate in other ways. When we look at tools like online engagement, it's very typical for these projects to be gathering a lot of input. It's quite common for us to gather from 50 to 70 or 1,000 pieces of information from the community so making sure that that input coming in is quantifiable, that we can analyze it digitally as opposed to going through it one comment at a time. And lastly, when we look at the overall goal of building support for plans going forward, there are a couple of aspects of this. Obviously increasing community buy-in or support for plans going forward is critical, and we have seen so many examples of projects where they did not have the requisite community support to see the plan all the way through to implementation. And so developing that kind of support, but also protecting the agency from potential embarrassment from the community backlash that we often see in public forums. So designing a system for public involvement online to meet these goals has been a priority of ours and I know that a lot of other vendors out there are thinking along the same lines. So when we then ask ourselves how would we approach this if we actually wanted this to be a hugely popular process? So we've looked at the advertising community. What would Don Draper do? How would we popularize public involvement? And the first thing that my imagination of this fictitious Don Draper character, the first thing that he might say is "To know your audience." To really examine who are the people in our constituency that we want to engage? When we look at the kinds of public that are out there in every planning process, there are going to be people who are positive and there are going to be people who are negative. The reality is the vast majority of people are actually moderate. They have not formed a solid opinion and they are kind of in what I call the squishy middle. They are not getting on a soapbox talking about what is troubling them, and they are not gung ho. They are in the middle. When we look at who shows up to public involvement processes that we form, we tend to find this. If the barrier to participation is high, we find mostly people who are negative. We find a lot of people who are against it because those are the people that will typically have the kind of motivation that it takes to get off the couch and come to a public meeting. When we lower the barrier, we start to see that it starts to close in and it's only when we've created a very, very low barrier to participation that we actually see this moderate middle participating and they can be some of the most constructive and helpful people in gathering input to inform our plans. So what we are talking about today is the need to really lower the barrier to participation to the maximum level possible. Another way of looking at the public is to think about how they form into groups. There is this group down here and we jokingly refer to these people as the S.T.P. These are the same ten people (S.T.P.) that show up to absolutely everything and I mean it gets so you could put out place cards for the people that you know are going to be there, and I'm sure in your communities you have these usual suspects that generally show up. It's a fairly small group. When we broaden the circle a little bit further, we start to bring in stakeholders. By and large, these are people who are paid to be there or who are part of some sort of community group or organization. Typically when we examine public involvement processes for projects, we see that they have engaged stakeholders and more or less the usual suspects. The next group forms probably 99 percent of the population of your communities are the general public and they likely have never in their life been to a public workshop and they are fairly tricky to engage so we have put a lot of our research and development into how do we engage those people because when we are successful in engaging these people, the stakeholders and the usual suspects are fairly easy by comparison. So looking again back at the advertising community, we have learned in our research from the advertising community that we have approximately seven seconds to get somebody's attention whether it be in a newspaper article, on Facebook, on an email campaign. We have about seven seconds of somebody's attention before they decide whether or not they are going to click on something, they are going to read a story, they are going to dive further into it. So we have a very narrow window of opportunity within which to get somebody's attention on your planning process. When we look at some of the campaigns that we've worked on that we think got that seven seconds right, this one comes up all the time. It was a project that we did for Nashville [Area MPO] around the future of the land use and transportation in the city so it was a choosing process where we were asking the community to help choose the future that they would like to see. So they came up with this really clever campaign that you could imagine went viral on Facebook and Twitter. This kind of image, there were other versions of it, this cute little guy picking away on his guitar and this girl picking flowers and there were a variety of different images that were clever enough that people just wanted to stop and wonder what's going on there? There is a variety of other very simple campaigns that has worked. This particular campaign in Atlanta [for the Atlanta Regional Commission], they managed to engage over 8,000 people in their first round of public involvement using this logo. So the second sort of element is once you have got their attention you might have about seven minutes of their time and so it's really important to use those seven minutes of their time as effectively as possible. So let's look now at a range of tools that you could choose from that are online tools to help you develop participation for your projects. So I've created a little taxonomy of the most popular online engagement tools. They kind of fall into three buckets. There are social networking tools that I think most of us are familiar with. These tools tend to be great for promoting public participation and to get people's attention to help them spread the word for you. Then there's crowd sourcing tools and you've probably seen examples of these as well. They are particularly good at the early stages of a process for generating new ideas about a particular initiative. When you really want the community to be creative and to propose and discuss new ideas. And then finally there are more survey-based tools, which are much more project-specific and they are great for collecting information from the public about values, priorities, and their input that would inform your plan specifically. So just looking at them quite quickly, the most popular tools for social networking have been Facebook for helping people spread the word amongst our connections, Twitter for helping get the word out there and for having your voice multiply throughout the community, and YouTube has been quite popular in just getting people to post their favorite places and so forth and what they like and dislike about the community. And campaigns like this when designed well can really help to spread the word about a process. But you are typically not going to be developing the kind of input using these tools to actually inform your planning document. It's more for promoting participation in other means. Then you've got a whole range of crowd sourcing tools that are available to you and certainly I would be happy to speak with any of you after if you have questions about the broad range of tools that are available. Many of you may have heard of MindMixer. MindMixer is shifting their focus and calling themselves mySidewalk at this point. It's a great tool for asking people some questions and then having them give you some creative answers back and they can see each other's suggestions and so they can vote on them and hopefully in that process the most interesting choices rise to the top. Then you've got a range of different survey tools and survey tools are really project-focused. They are very easy to customize for the specific input that you want on a project. They range from very simple multiple choice tools like SurveyMonkey, which is very low cost. There are also tools like Textizen, which more focus on the people who are addicted to their smartphones and texting all the time. So really great for certainly the younger community and you are able to ask very simple multiple choice questions and have people text back their answers. Finally, the other end of the spectrum on survey, there is MetroQuest, which is a much more visual tool which helps combine education around the choices with getting people's input on those specific options. So I'm going to spend a little bit of time talking about MetroQuest in a little bit more detail because some of the other presenters are going to refer to it as well. One of the things that is really important is to provide people a variety of different options for how they choose to participate. Not everybody is going to want to come in and participate in the same way. There are going to be people who do want to participate on the web and or on their smartphones. And what we have found is it's really only powerful if people are willing to share your link with their friends. And so we need to think very carefully when developing something for a project that you are doing. What kind of things will people be willing to share? And typically it's the sort of things that are fun and fast and meaningful for people to do. There are always going to be gaps in the participation and in those gaps it's useful to go and target different community groups that are perhaps not participating in other ways and so this woman here has five iPads. At a public meeting, she is getting people to participate and there are also options like this of having community kiosks available to the community. You can put these in community centers and get a large number of people to participate if they are in the right location. They are very location-dependent. It's also important, I think, to have a variety of different ways of people providing their input because each project is different and in fact each stage of the project is different and so you might start by having people rank their priorities which is always an effective way to begin a conversation. Getting people to tell you what's important about a particular planning process that also allows you to customize what they see next. So you can then get further engagement by having things associated with the things that are most important to them. There might be an opportunity for you to engage people on scenarios so this is an example that Lynn Merenda is going to talk about a little bit later that was used in Florida where you can get people to weigh on different scenario alternatives and learn about the impacts. Then there is a host of other ways that you might engage people like visual preference surveys. Getting people to weigh in on different policy options or strategies that are being proposed, asking people to put comments or markers on a map where issues are occurring or where priority areas are getting people to allocate budget into different areas depending on what their priorities are for the development of your planning process. Maybe asking people to vote on different corridors or different projects that you have proposed around your region and getting people to vote yes or no on them. You can even show them a little budget where they can be kept within a certain target budget. And of course it's all important to collect people's demographic information so you know who you are hearing from and most importantly where the gaps are because it's quite likely that you will want to use other forms of public engagement to fill in some of those gaps as you go throughout your planning process. So that was a fairly quick overview of some policies and best practices that you could look at in terms of using public engagement tools online. Some of the benefits. And we hope that through this you have seen that online engagement tools could help you go from this to something that looks a little bit more like this where you have been able to engage a larger cross section of the population and gain more meaningful insight into what the general public thinks, not just those usual suspects. And hopefully in so doing build support for your plans going forward. And with that I'll just put up my contact information if you have any other information. And I'll also put in the chat window a few links that you may find interesting. We have a guidebook for best practices for online engagement that you could download for free, and there is also some other information where you can see some of these examples in more detail. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Lynn Merenda to talk about her case studies.
Jody McCullough: This is Jody McCullough. I think we are going to pause for a poll question from the audience.
Jody McCullough: Let me introduce Lynn Merenda, who is the Public Engagement Specialist from Hillsborough MPO and Planning Commission. At the University of Connecticut, Ms. Merenda majored in urban studies and focused on transportation for graduate studies at the University of Maryland. Believing transportation planners should first “walk-the-walk,” she got on board Amtrak to start her career. After experiencing a major derailment, Ms. Merenda launched a 20-year career in marketing and public relations for flagship properties of major hospitality companies including TGI Fridays, Hyatt, and Walt Disney Imagineering where she promoted Disney's new urban town of Celebration. Returning to her planning routes 12 years ago, Ms. Merenda applied her private sector experience to government outreach. By translating technical jargon into user-friendly people-speak and imagery, the Hillsborough MPO and Planning Commission have embraced strategic marketing to engage the public through multi-layered communications and innovative techniques by linking land use and transportation planning in the heart of the rapidly growing Tampa Bay region. Lynn?
Lynn Merenda: Good afternoon everybody and welcome. Today I would like to talk a little [about] exciting outreach techniques and the main thing I want get into is when you are planning your marketing plan or your public engagement plan that you consider it your endpoint, what types of data or information do you want to get out of this. There are all kinds of tools as Dave just went over. And we are going to talk about a few more. I'm going to go back first to our 2035 transportation plan. Wow, my slide turned upside down there, but we had the open houses and the meetings and we still do. As far as public meetings go, public meetings are kind of like print media right now. Do we want to lose newspapers? No, so we have to go beyond like they do and move online and use multimedia opportunities to engage the public. The town halls were very effective for us that time. We've done several of them. Our biggest one we called out to over 80,000 households, which even if they don't respond they get a message about something in planning that they can learn about―which gives them one piece of a multilayered type of engagement. We found that about 15,000 of those people stayed on the call for at least a few minutes, but when it came down to the polling which is only like an A, B, C, D, E type choice polling and you only get three or four polls per call, only 100 to 400 people responded to the polls so we weren't really maximizing our effectiveness. We also wanted to be creative in our approach and explain what MPO planning is about so we created at the time a citizen's guide for transportation planning, which received best practices acknowledgement. [It was called] The Joy of Looking instead of the Joy of Cooking, and we took different MPO aspects and put it in a way that people understand. People understand to plan a menu and that they need quality ingredients and so we put all the terms of our transportation planning in a fun way that anyone could understand. Just rolling through these a little bit. You are all familiar with these different terms. How we do our thing. Ways people can get involved. How they can contact us, our grocery lists of ways that they could contact us, the alphabet soup which goes on and on in public engagement for government agencies for sure. So we were very proud of this document. After the 2035 plan, there was a local referendum [vote] for [a] one-cent sales tax for transportation improvements with a lot of focus on transit improvements, and it lost by 58 percent. So when we were approaching our 2040 plan, we first went back and did an analysis―a real marketing analysis the way people would use study groups. It's more scientific, and it actually won an award from APA Florida's only Award of Excellence in 2012. We called it "Serving up Transportation Choices like Soft Drinks: The Role of Product Research and Planning." And we had done a lot of extensive research scientifically on why people voted the way they did, if they knew about it, what transportation choices were important to them. And we have live videos where the decision makers, the elected officials, the MPO boards and the county commissions and the city council could hear directly from people's mouths what they were saying they wanted to see. And this was all selected scientifically because a lot of polling isn't so that was kind of exciting for us. So as we moved into our-- the appearance of this is not as it was planned so if you have trouble seeing it if you type in, I'll respond later on. But anyway, when we went out for our 2040 plan, we engaged many more tools and we have already won the Open Planning Tools Exemplary Implementation Award at the New Partners Smart Growth conference. We also won First Place Public Education at the Future of Region Award by the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council. And also the One Bay Award at the same awards, which was the biggest award you could get. We also incorporated a lot of emergency preparedness resiliency information, which is going to be featured on Fox Business in June and July and the first airing is on May 29th at 7:30 on the Discovery Channel's Innovations with Ed Begley, Jr. So our plan and what went into it will be featured on those shows coming up. So, when we looked at Imagine 2040, our first thing was "Let's Design Hillsborough's Future." This is what we refer to now as Part I. We did it in conjunction with the Planning Commission, which is the Land Use Agency that our staff has partnered with in Hillsborough County and also our different jurisdictions, which represent Hillsborough County, the city of Tampa, the city of Plant City, and [the city of] Temple Terrace. We currently have 1.3 million people. We have some good things. Twenty-five percent of our land is agricultural. Ten percent has been reserved for environmental preservation. And 87 percent of development has been inside the urban service area over the last decade. But, on the negative side, our bus service only reaches about half of the jobs and, with very limited service, traffic is the sixth worst in the nation, and we unfortunately fall among the worst pedestrian fatality rates in the United States. And during the recessionary period we lost 25 percent of our jobs in the area. We are expecting about half a million more residents between now and 2040, and the results of the updates will have already been incorporated into the long-range transportation plan which was approved last November and this year is going through the different comprehensive plans of our jurisdictions. Basically we are working together to look how the choices about growth and development roads and other infrastructure affect each other so we are trying to be more efficient. Given today's economy and the political climate in recent years, it's a real challenge for planners to better hear what the citizens feel is a necessity and to find a way to do more with less. So we were seeking creative solutions with citizens as well as both public and private partnerships to grab what we needed for the future. So building on the present, we built a series of scenarios. There are three simplified stories of alternative futures, and they are also considered a national model by the FHWA's scenario planning peer exchange. Imagine 2040 featured “The Suburban Dream,” “The Bustling Metro,” and “New Corporate Centers.” And we asked people, "What's important to you?" And I am sorry that my slides did not go through here. But we talked about different things like if they wanted more transit, if they wanted to save more open space, different kinds of things. If they picked like traffic delay was a major concern for them, they could see how each of the future alternative scenarios would affect what's important to them and, over weighing several different things, they could pick the best scenario for them and leave comments along the way, which is what was really important. Again, I'm getting worried here. My slides are disappearing. We also look at transportation top picks whether it was smart traffic signals, more different types of transit, better sidewalks, bike lanes, and trails or better bus service. All of them had top ratings among our respondents. Again I apologize that you can't see this but some of the funding ways that people liked were sales tax, gas tax, the most favorable funding ways. Also impact fees by developers, and I can get you the details at a later situation. I'm sorry this didn't come out. Alright, the slides that I'm missing I'm just going to skip through, but the results of Part I: 3,529 surveys were completed. The great thing about MetroQuest is that [having] no requirement to register allowed more people to drop in, let's say less self-consciously, they could just come in and whether they left one choice or three dozen comments and made fifty choices, we gathered 91,500 data points through prioritizing, ranking, rating, choosing, suggesting, commenting. And they did this on iPad stations, on kiosks, at community meetings, and on the web. This is our county, and you can see we had 49 kiosk locations. It was three different kiosks rotating throughout the community. We definitely tried to put it in environmental justice areas. Trying to reach out to people that are not traditionally served as well. We had 94 community meetings. We also did a paper survey to correspond with the electronic survey, the MetroQuest. We started off with an Imagine 2040 working group, which was a few hundred people. It included student groups. It included seniors, stakeholders, developers, jurisdictional partners, where we fleshed out the different scenarios before we introduced them to the public. We had a big media day launch party that was covered. We had a P.S.A. [Public Service Announcement] featuring recognizable local media that ran on the county television station. We did a partnership with the Tampa Bay Times where they printed out 500,000 newspaper inserts for us. It was 12 pages explaining the whole entire process, full color, beautiful piece, and most of those went into the Tampa Tribune and the Tampa Bay Times on kickoff week. And then we had a 10,000 overrun for meetings that we could take with us. We did rack cards, extensive use of social media and e-newsletters. We also wrote letters to the top corporations in the area asking them to ask their employees to either have time at work or at home to fill out the surveys. We had a “meeting-in-the-box” online if people wanted to conduct their own meeting without us. We had a lesson plan for Hillsborough County schools that we posted online either for the actual school or for people doing homeschooling. They could do a lesson plan with their kids. We did the kiosks like I said at employment and community centers, libraries, malls, and at special events. We did online advertising for the first time focusing a little on that because that's a direct link. If you put something in the newspaper, people have to think about going on later to log on, but if they are reading something online and there's an ad, they can go directly there. We also got the tax collectors to put it on their website a link directly to the survey so that when people were checking about getting their license renewed or whatever, that our link was right on their front page saying do this survey. Initially, we were going to run from the August until mid-October. We extended into November, and we did a big newspaper route to announce the extension. We also partnered with Turner Home Shows, which is Florida's largest home show. The top one was in January of 2014. That was probably like the equivalent of 30 booths all wrapped into one where people could walk through a planning experience and there were TVs that had the PowerPoints and the different things and we had like an apartment overlooking a city view and I had an artist doing a live mural and I had an electric car provided by Tampa Electric and all different kinds of things. And over 30,000 people come through each show. On the bottom left side is from the March show we actually held a town hall meeting at the Florida Home Show. Fridays are free there so we weren't keeping anyone out. They didn't have to buy a ticket to come in. You could see live surveying in the bottom right hand corner. Also Turner Home shows were so generous that, for our Imagine 2040 Part II, they actually gave a free ticket to the Home Show to anybody who took our survey. So they have been awesome public-private partners with us. I can't say enough about if you are able to partner with private entities to really get the word out. It's a phenomenal thing. And Imagine 2040 Part II-- oh, I'm at five minute warning. I'm so sorry. We took it a step further. The people spoke, we listened, now we wanted to know more specific things. Our Media Day launch party this time we did at Tampa Bay Grand Prix. They let us come in and for free let our celebrities and media, people that were speaking race for free, and the news came out and filmed it to launch the big kickoff so it got a lot of attention and was a lot of fun. We did 65 presentations around the county as well as 53 community events again, really trying to concentrate where the people are. We added poll everywhere to our MetroQuest and live meetings people could be asked right on their cell phone to do some questions as well. And we got real specific this time about transportation projects so you could go in and click on different major growth things and yes or no. Do you want to invest here? And we got actual results. People were also to give comments again. We asked them to build a budget when they overspent their budget. We gave them options for do you want to take away programs, raise taxes, spend less on certain things. And as it turned out 82 percent of respondents exceeded the current budget and the majority would invest a higher amount. And of course if you look to the right there are some ways that people suggested that we could raise funds. I will get you the entire--our budget was for both parts, I think 225,000 altogether but that is not just the public engagement. That was the consultants working on the data and all that stuff too so I'll get a breakout for you. I'm getting questions typed to me, I'm sorry. Okay so we have the interactive MetroQuest. We have Poll Everywhere. We had paper surveys. We did custom fortune cookies. Very cheap if you need handouts and, on it, we put, "You determine our future. Take the survey at imagine2040.org. Invest wisely for our future." And on the flip side of that it said "Take survey by 8-25. Get a free ticket to the Home Show." These are cheap and fun. We have 12 very talented people on our MPO staff. We did nearly half a million rack cards. Here are some of the different places we did it from the Seminole Tribe Casino Health Fair's Disability Expo, Community Plan Open Houses, on the buses, at the Hispanic Services Council, and we also did a partnership with the Property Appraiser's Office. They inserted our cards into 453,000 property and business owners to their tax bills. Nothing like some good news in your tax bills, right? Here we go. Poll Everywhere. We came back with 225 surveys. There is the sample of the printed where we actually listed all the choices out for people so it's multilayered. You can't leave the people behind that don't have the technology. You have to do the meetings. You have to do the paper, but you have to go beyond. We utilize media. We went out to a million different types of public events. Got all different kinds of people involved. Here are some more―lots of coverage. We have the business groups like the chambers and stuff would cover and tell the people to go do the survey, go do the survey. Here you can see this is the Part II results, how it's scattered around the county and the different concentrations. Oh, by the way, that one right there, that's MacDill Air Force Base. So we averaged more surveys than Part I, but it was a shorter period of time. We had online on Facebook and Twitter we had over 500,000 mentions and retweets and impressions online. It was massive. It was our largest response ever. The findings were consistent with our post- referendum polling that was actually scientific. So I'll just leave with a couple of notes. Go where people are. We use technology and storytelling to bring substantive questions to a broad range of participants resulting in our broadest engagement ever. We consistently push the envelope of MetroQuest and Poll Everywhere to give us more to get what we needed. Implementing the visions, the scenario planning exercises did more than illustrate and educate. It also created usable forecasts of growth, land consumption and transportation demands becoming very literally the foundation of our core comprehensive plans and our long-range transportation plans. By looking at all five plans together, Imagine 2040 allowed for discussion of how decisions of each affect each other, which was really important. Making the case for investment Hillsborough residents may soon face another referendum. The boards are looking at that now. We are working with that effort. It's called Go Hillsborough here locally. And performance metrics, the new Federal regulations demand that metropolitan transportation plans show measurable progress towards safety, maintenance, traffic management and other goals. Imagine 2040 is at the cutting edge of performance based planning as a demonstration project in the SHRP 2 [Second Strategic Highway Research Program] program for safety and reliability of long range forecasting and, perhaps more importantly, it provides simplified financial scenarios so that they could be a building block for the cost feasible metropolitan plan. And finally resiliency. For the first time, the Metropolitan Transportation Plan includes investments to make key infrastructure less vulnerable to severe weather and climate change. The high, medium, low investment levels for safety and security were developed with an FHWA vulnerability assessment and adaptation pilot project grant, one of only a handful in the country. And I just challenge everybody to keep raising the bar. I have not read all the comments, but I will go back. And at the end we published a “thank you” and invited people to the public hearing for the transportation plans working with our many partners. And I can be reached at all these different numbers. Please follow at Hillsboroughmpo on Twitter, at HillCoPlanCom on Twitter. Facebook is Hillsborough MPO. It was my pleasure to join you today. Thank you.
Jody McCullough: Thank you, Lynn. That was a really interesting presentation. I think we are going to pull up the poll question. Do we have a poll question between speakers? Okay, thanks. So the poll question is "Pennsylvania with its 40,000 miles ranks what percentage in the nation with the number of state owned roadways?" I will let our next speakers respond to this with the correct answer. The next presentation is "Tell Us What You Think: PennDOT's Modernized Engagement Process." We have two speakers. Our first speaker is Jessica Clark. And Jessica is the Transportation Planning Manager with the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation. Ms. Clark has spent her career as a transportation planner on various levels of the Pennsylvania planning spectrum. She worked on the county level with both rural and MPOs. And on the State level at the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation for the past 14 years. Clark manages the Twelve-Year Program (TYP) section and provides support to the State Transportation Commission (STP) and State Transportation Advisory Committee (TAC). She and her team of experts have worked to modernize PennDOT business practices, including the update of the TYP, the STP, and TC as well as transportation advisory committees. Our second speaker is Leanne Doran, who is an Associate Senior Public Involvement Specialist with McCormick Taylor. Ms. Doran specializes in facilitation and innovative outreach techniques with 22 years of experience in the development and implementation of public participation and education programs on transportation planning, urban planning, and environmental clearance projects. Recent experience includes public outreach services for the Pennsylvania State of Transportation Commission to modernize their public outreach process, Southwestern Pennsylvania Commission's long range transportation and economic development plan, and North Central Commission's Regional Safety Study. Ms. Doran is a member of the American Planning Association and International Association of Facilitators. I'll turn it over to our speakers.
Jessica Clark: Thank you, and good afternoon. In response to the poll question, it looks like 38 percent of you actually picked the correct answer. It is Pennsylvania is considered to have the fifth-largest highway system in the United States. We also have the third highest number of state and bridges in the United States with 5,000 State owned bridges. As you can see, our transportation system in Pennsylvania is vast and it requires many resources and partners working together to support the safe and efficient movement of people and goods throughout our Commonwealth. One of these partners and the sponsor of our portion of the webinar today is the Pennsylvania State Transportation Commission. You will also hear us use the acronym STC for short. The STC is a 15-member body that serves as PennDOT's Board of Directors. They are established by Pennsylvania Act 120 of 1970. This is also the same act that established the Department of Transportation. The STC is charged with the high-level evaluation of Pennsylvania's transportation system. They also provide policy-driven direction with respect to the development of the Twelve-Year Transportation Program. Now, for more than 40 years, the commission has hosted public hearings every two years across the State to collect feedback for inclusion in the Twelve-Year Transportation Program. Some of you by now may be wondering what the Twelve-Year Transportation Program is and how does it fit into transportation planning―the process in Pennsylvania. The Twelve-Year Transportation Program is a dynamic schedule of multimodal priority projects that PennDOT, with its various partners, have agreed to accomplish over a 12-year period. Our State law requires PennDOT every two years to prepare, update and submit Pennsylvania's Twelve-Year Transportation Program to the STC. It is then sent to the Governor, the General Assembly, and the Secretary of Transportation. In Pennsylvania, planning is conducted on the local level. Our 24 planning partners use various tools, technical analysis, and local knowledge to determine transportation needs specific to their regions. We have 19 MPOs as shown in gray on the map. We have four rural planning organizations (RPOs) represented in blue and one independent county as seen in orange. Each of our MPOs and RPOs is responsible for developing a transportation improvement program at the local level. This is also known as the TIP. Combined, these TIPs make up the Statewide Transportation Improvement Program, or STIP for short. The STIP is also updated in Pennsylvania on a two-year cycle with our planning partners conducting public outreach on the local level for this effort. As you can see on the illustration, the STIP reflects the first four years of the 12-year program. And just a note, this graphic actually depicts our upcoming update, the 2017 to 2018 update however you can access the current versions of this, the 2015 12-year program and STIP on our website talktransportation.com by selecting our transportation planning tab. This slide shows a snapshot of the traditional STC public hearing process. On the left is what folks generally saw as they walked up to the podium to address the commission. Each speaker was afforded five minutes and provided a paper copy of the guidelines for participation, which is located on the right. The STC held five to six of these public hearings across the State in an effort to spread their reach. However, in recent years, participation at these public hearings dwindled significantly to only six members of the actual public attending in 2011. It was definitely time for our STC to take a fresh look at their process. So, in 2013, as part of the modernization efforts, the STC set the stage to improve public outreach as it related to their mission. Once again, that high-level evaluation of our transportation system and to provide policy driven direction for the development of the 12-year program. As part of this effort, the STC set some pretty lofty goals. They wanted to extend the range of public involvement techniques to increase input, use modernized tools and techniques, educate our customers and increase awareness, and finally reduce overlapping public meetings and hearings between the STC and our regional planning partners. After conducting best practice research across the nation interviewing our commissioners, PennDOT leadership, and our planning partners, we launched a modernized process in 2013 that included a brand new website, an online survey using MetroQuest during our open comment period with the option for traditional surveys for those without web access. Now our surveys focused on ranking transportation priorities as well as featuring a mapping tool to identify project concerns as well. We also held our first ever online webcast public meeting in place of the traditional public hearing and finally our commissioners attended local face-to-face public meetings in planning regions whenever it was possible. And now, I'm going to turn the presentation over to Leanne Doran to provide the details of our campaign.
Leanne Doran: Alright, thank you very much. Okay so we started off with launching a brand new website. The website that we established with a new URL that was easy to understand was talkpatransportation.com. And this was a place where we could share information about the STC. Also about public meetings and how the public could get involved with the State Transportation Commission and their work. Information on our transportation planning process and the area that was circled the "Tell Us What You Think" page was where you could provide feedback. And resources are also shared along with the contact information, and they are able to share videos and other information quite easily and this really served as the clearing house for our project. So the promotion campaign that we launched in 2013 on a pretty short schedule included a press release to all media outlets and a stakeholder email blast network. And this was sort of the concept of you tell two friends and they will tell two friends. And working particularly with our planning regions, chambers, stakeholder network, and our legislators and elected officials, we were able to really get the word out and in an easy way. What we did was provide a toolkit to each of those organizations so that they could then share widgets on their websites and links and put our articles in their e-newsletters and share social media posts. Including QR codes on all of our promotional materials also helped to make it very easily acceptable to get to the information that was out there and the opportunities for engagement. We branded the campaign with "Tell Us What You Think," and that still remains our brand today. And that was really helpful especially with PennDOT and I'm sure some of the other regions out there. They also have a long range transportation plan that was kind of happening around the same time and each of the MPOs and RPOs have their engagement process and outreach process so we really wanted to come up with brand that was easily recognizable to the State Transportation Commission. So what did we hear and who did we hear from? We got 2,238 surveys that were completed, and this includes the MetroQuest survey and the paper surveys and very few, a handful, of hotline surveys. We do have a traditional board on the State Transportation Commission, and they had great concerns about whether people would really be comfortable providing their input online and through online tools and what we learned through this first pilot effort was that people are actually more comfortable and again we absolutely exceeded our six people at the original public hearings with this effort. And the map you can see is how the participants to the MetroQuest survey were spread across the State of Pennsylvania and where we had some gaps so that was really good information for us to use as we worked towards the next update process. We had 100 people attend our webcast public meeting and that was done as a video webcast and then 48 people actually completed and submitted detailed project forms about project suggestions that they had. And this is an image of how we actually visualized the data that we collected through the mapping tool on the MetroQuest survey. We used web mapping and produced this at McCormick Taylor. We had 7,000 map points that we were able to map and as you can see with all of them on one screen it gets pretty busy but you are actually able to zoom in on your region and take a closer look. And this is available on our website if you'd like to go to talkpatransportation.com to check it out. We also have the buttons on the left where you can toggle between each of the areas that we collected feedback on and see how many safety concerns were identified. And then we were also able to share the data through our website in Excel form to our planning partners and also make it available to the public or any of the local planners that might want to use the data for their own planning needs. There were a lot of positive outcomes with this initial pilot effort and again there was some concern and consternation initially, but everybody was really quite pleased with 2,000 participating in our MetroQuest survey, 100 in the webcast public meeting, more than 10,000 website visitors in just the first part of our year and 65 percent being new. We did do a survey of our planning partners after and got really a lot of great feedback on how the new process worked and how it fit together with the transportation improvement program public outreach as well. We did get some suggestions that we addressed and we are, in fact, in the beginning of our comment period for this new cycle. And we just recently won the WTS [Women in Transportation Seminar] Innovative Transportation Solutions Award for this effort. So STC did adopt the new process and now we are working to improve it. Launched the new open comment period on April 15th and we are closing it on May 29th and again we did a webcast public meeting. This time we went with a new provider and it's more of an opportunity to share slides and video at the same time through OnStream and it's allowed for private questions and screening for relevancy. We did the webinar in just about an hour. Offered closed captioning and video recording files for unlimited participants and customized notifications to go to our registered attendees and branding. It was just very, very user friendly. Has poll questions and the like and our timing for this was later in the evening. We learned during our first cycle that having it too close to the dinner hour reduced our participants so we actually increased by about a third our webcast public meeting participants. And again we are offering the survey in three forms: online, in writing, and by phone and again―sticking with MetroQuest―it was definitely well-received and user-friendly. So let's take a quick look at the screen for using this time and I can give you a little more detail on that. This is the welcome screen and again the feedback is the information is there so that you can learn about the survey and how it works. And then we use the ranking screen that Dave described in the beginning and you're able to click and drag on each of those bars to pull your priorities to the top. And then this time we are using the budget screen which we hadn't used in the past so this is going to be interesting for us and we are really looking forward to data analysis to see how folks' priorities actually compare with how they budget. It is often easy to pick priorities when you are not thinking about how to budget so we are definitely noticing and getting feedback. It's taking a little bit longer, but people are giving a more thoughtful response. We also use the mapping tool again and again you can click on the tabs and drag them on the map and place them where you need to. Again the survey is open now so if you do go to our website to check it out, please keep that in mind and our lessons learned from a budgeting standpoint is to be sure and allot time for analysis of your survey data and thinking about how you want to visualize it and use it. GIS, Excel and database relationship experiences are very helpful. Graphic design support as well including instruction tabs are very useful, and the five-minute warning is up. But we are almost there. So again, limiting the free-form questions helps when you get 7,000 data points. It's much easier and, [with] feedback from a couple thousand people, it's much easier to work with. And of course asking the right questions is always the key to all this data. Alright. So here is our contact information and I believe the presentations are going to be posted after for your use. And I think with that we will turn it back over for questions.
Jody McCullough: We can turn this over to Dave because, I think, Dave, you are going to be handling the questions on all the presentations?
Dave Biggs: I'm happy to and I'm happy to direct them to the other presenters depending on the questions.
Jody McCullough: As appropriate, yes.
Dave Biggs: Yeah.
Jody McCullough: So we've been getting a lot of questions in the chat pod today, but we can also receive questions over the phone.
Dave Biggs: Sure, and I have been―while the other presenters were presenting―I've been trying to answer as many questions briefly as I could. We had a few questions early on about whether people can vote multiple times because there isn't a log-on process so I explained that within MetroQuest we, because of people's enthusiasm, let's say, we did develop a fraud detection system that would allow us to identify people and whether or not they are voting multiple times. That was really important to do when certain projects are attacked by very zealous community groups. So that was one of the early questions. We had several questions about budget. It wasn't clear whether they were asking about the budget for the overall public involvement process or for the online engagement specifically. So I think Lynn answered that. The overall budget for their process, including external consultants, was $260,000. The budget for MetroQuest is typically under $20,000 so it represents a fairly small portion of that. But certainly there are all kinds of things that you can do internally to leverage online engagement and of course public meetings and all of the other programs that Lynn talked about can be quite expensive depending on how you approach that. Certainly happy to take any other comments or questions. Just keeping my eye on the chat window but certainly if people wish, they can pose a question. Do they have instructions on how to do that?
Jody McCullough: If we could ask the operator to open the phone lines and instruct the participants how to get into the queue to ask a question?
Operator: Absolutely. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press star then one on your touchtone phone. A voice prompt on your phone line will indicate when your line has been opened. You may remove yourself from the queue by pressing the star key followed by the digit two. If you are using your speaker phone, please pick up the handset before pressing those corresponding digits. Once again, please press star one at this time. We do have a question on the telephone line. It will come from:
Vanessa Baca: Hi, this is Vanessa Baca. I'm the Marketing Manager for the City of Albuquerque Transit Department. I actually have a two-part question. My first part of my question is for Jessica over at PennDOT. Jessica, did you find that having a web-based public meeting was more effective than a traditional face-to-face public meeting?
Jessica Clark: Absolutely. We found that―our web-based meetings―we reached far more people during even the pilot. We reached over 100 people during our web-based meeting as opposed to during our 2011 hearings where we reached only 6 members of the public. And then during our 2015 update our webcast meeting reached I believe it was 137 participants. They were increasing each update a little bit with our webcast and definitely far exceeding those public hearings which were definitely an outdated form of communications. We are pretty pleased.
Vanessa Baca: And then I have another just kind of a general overall question in reference to crowd sourcing. What types of technology have all the different groups utilized in terms of crowd sourcing beyond the usual venues of social media? Have you used anything like a smartphone app, anything like that?
Dave Biggs: This is Dave Biggs. Many of the crowdsourcing platforms are smartphone compatible. Generally speaking, members of the public are not willing to download and install a specific app for a planning project and so most of the time people just favor smartphone-friendly websites that orient themselves and behave well using smartphones. And certainly we have worked many times where crowdsourcing applications have been used in conjunction with MetroQuest typically as I said early on in the planning process where the slate is wide open and they are looking for creative ideas for the design of something or that kind of thing where fresh ideas are welcomed.
Vanessa Baca. Thank you very much.
Dave Biggs: My pleasure.
Operator: As a reminder, it is star one. And there appear to be no other phone questions at this time. Actually we just got one we will hear from.
W1: I have a question for Leanne Doran.
Operator: Please go ahead.
W1: Yeah, I have a question for Leanne Doran. You said that when you had your webcast meeting that you had a certain time that you found was better because you weren't reaching people at dinnertime. I was going to ask you what time you did have your webcast meeting?
Leanne Doran: Yes, we shifted back to seven o'clock and I think initially we had some feedback that there was concern on our commissioner's behalf that might be too late, but what we actually learned during the pilot was that we had probably 200-plus who registered but only 100 actually came on and we were trying to figure out why that occurred and we learned that some just got sort of caught up in their dinner hour and lost track of it. And we also didn't have a strong notification and reminder system that year, which is why we went to the OnStream webinar tool because they really offered a lot of built-in automatic reminders to keep people interested and engaged. So we shifted to 7:00. Another time we would like to try is over the lunch hour which we are going to probably do the next time and maybe offer a couple options and repeat the webcast twice so that's actually something that we are going to keep in mind for the next cycle.
W1: Okay, thank you.
Leanne Doran: You are welcome.
Dave Biggs: Lynn, in just looking at the chat window, there are a couple of questions that I believe are for you. One person was asking "What was the outcome of the Hillsborough 2040?" Another question was "How were the demographics analyzed prior to the planning public outreach?"
Lynn Merenda: If the person who wants the demographic information can call our office at 813-272-5940, and I can have someone talk in a lot more detail about that than I can do. I'm just kind of the outreach specialist. The outcome as I've been posting in the chat box of course was the approval of the 2040 transportation plans in November 2014, and now the vision that the citizens helped develop is now guiding the comprehensive plan updates for our four jurisdictions in our county. It's created a lot of dialogue to go along with the Go Hillsborough and potential referendum for transportation sales tax or gas tax or something to come up in November 2016 or beyond that. We are working hand-in-hand again with the various jurisdictions here to support with the data that we have collected.
Dave Biggs: Great, thanks very much, Lynn. Were there any questions? The chat box window is pretty lengthy at this point, and I'm not sure if I've missed any other questions so if I have missed any questions, then don't hesitate to press star one and ask to speak. Lynn, there is another question here in the chat box from East West Gateway. "How much does a kiosk cost and do you rent them?"
Lynn Merenda: Well actually, Dave Biggs gave us a vendor who works with him on many projects. The first time we had the kiosk we didn't elect to do it in Part II because they were very labor intensive. And because we are in the lightning capitol of the world―by the way, go NHL Lightning tonight, hopefully sweeping the Canadians. Anyway, with all the lightning and everything, if it was out at a library at the remote end of the county and the power went off, it had to go be rebooted. And so we elected not to do it the second time around and worked with iPad stations that we attended live and did other types of things. A lot more online advertising the second time. But the kiosks on average were about $1500 each to rent for a couple months' period, and it included the customizations that you saw with our graphic. And one more thing I wanted to point out that I got rushed out of saying. I try to use kids in our marketing because, as it said, on one of our rack cards the kids that are in kindergarten, first, second, third grade are going to be in their 30s in 2040. We are planning for them. And then, when you go to senior communities, I've had people turn around and say "I'm not going to be here. I don't care." But if they think about the legacy that they are leaving for their kids and grandkids, I always try to involve kids in telling our story. Thank you.
Dave Biggs: Thanks, Lynn. And just a little bit more on those kiosks. We have started using more iPad kiosks on projects. Now typically iPad kiosks are light enough that you wouldn't want to put them completely unattended in the open as you can the heavyweight ones, but they tend to be a lot less expensive for about 200 dollars a month you can get a branded iPad kiosk for the project. And you can take it to community events where there is typically somebody within close proximity that's kind of overseeing it. So there are other options for having people kind of self-automate for their participation when there is going to be somebody nearby. The major-sized kiosks―the big ones, 80 pounders―are typically the kinds of things you would leave behind and just they are tamper-proof and damage-proof and so forth.
Lynn Merenda: I'm actually typing now to the last question in the box. By far, the Imagine 2040 and the use of the MetroQuest tool was the most cost effective for us based on the amount of exchange, education, comparison like as an opportunity not just to say what do you think, A, B, C. or D, but to get the people to make a choice and then write a comment on it and give them multiple opportunities. The cost of MetroQuest session is not much more than a telephone town hall, which I call "town call" experience and you get so much more data back. Like it's not just one way going out, it's an exchange and a lot of data coming in.
Dave Biggs: That's interesting, Lynn, and we've done a whole bunch of research on cost per participant rates for different forms of engagement. And it might be surprising for people to hear that it's not uncommon to have a cost of about a thousand dollars per participant for some forms of public meetings and so forth. And certainly if you've been to public meetings where the consultants outnumber the public, you can see how you could get to figures like that. But certainly in the hundreds of dollars it's quite common. And then as we look at different forms of online engagement, some of them can be as low as a dollar or two per participant. So there's a big differential there. Another question came in from Jamil. "How did you get the word out to the citizens about the available online tool?" And I will put again in the chat window the guidebook to effective online engagement, which has 10 or 15 different suggestions for how that promotion can occur to get people to your online engagement so please do take a look at that if you are interested. Lynn did a great job of explaining that, so Lynn maybe while I'm typing that in you can summarize the kinds of things that you did to promote participation online.
Jody McCullough: This is Jody. I just want to interrupt for a minute just to remind people that the presentations are also in the file share pod that's in the bottom left hand corner in case we get cut off at 2:30 or Lynn gets a chance to finish the questions. And also that we will have an announcement coming out in a couple of weeks for our next webinar that should be scheduled for June. So thank you everyone and sorry to interrupt. Please go ahead.
Lynn Merenda: We also had a couple of interns come in when we first kicked this off. And helped our staff with the meeting-in-the-box and the lesson plan for the schools and calling different community organizations that we have worked with in the past to schedule community presentations. We worked with the county television station to do that PSA for us for free, and they ran it throughout the entire period. We did fortune cookies at meetings. We did the rack cards any way we could get it out. And then, of course, we posted through our Twitter and our Facebook and tried to like I said we had over half a million impressions during that period of people tweeting and retweeting and talking back to us about Imagine 2040. We went on radio shows, television, encouraged newspaper articles. You really have to massage the media relationships in your community. We also did small papers like you guys have The Patch around the county. We have something called the Osprey Observer that has small papers in print and online, did stories and I did trades with them to feature some ads and then they did editorial pieces. All of it is about extending your reach. So when we did a purchase with the Tampa Bay Times they matched us and gave me free maps that I could use for online advertising or more print advertising. I talk about extending what you can get because we don't have unlimited budgets and as impressed as I was with getting 6,000 survey respondents I really wanted 10 or 20 thousand, but I think you'd need a really big marketing budget to really get the word out even more.
Dave Biggs: Well you did a great job, Lynn and thank you very much for sharing your stories and same to you, Leanne and Jessica.
Rae Keasler: Thanks everyone for attending the webinar this afternoon. We appreciate your attendance and again if you would like to receive a copy of the presentation or the audio or a copy of the transcript, please see the link that I just posted on the chat box. It will be available in a couple of weeks. Everyone, have a good afternoon. Thank you again. Good bye.
Operator: And that concludes our conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using AT&T teleconference service. You may now disconnect.